The Future Workforce: What Leaders Need To Know About Hiring and Training

Intro  0:06

Welcome to the Growth + Exit podcast where owners of privately held middle market companies talk about founding, scaling and exiting their businesses successfully. Learn how to maximize and monetize your business on your own terms. Let’s get started.

Heather Bennett  0:31

Hello. I’m Heather Bennett, your host for the Growth + Exit podcast featuring business owners talking about successfully scaling, founding and potentially exiting their businesses. Past guests have included Allison Cummins, the CEO of Blue Outcomes, Kevin Poole, the CEO of Newport, and Jody Jankovsky, CEO of black line. This episode is brought to you by Newport LLC, a team of seasoned C suite executives who help CEOs of privately held companies grow de risk and exit their businesses successfully. To learn more about Newport, please visit us at Newportllc.com, or find us on LinkedIn. Before introducing today’s guest, I would like to thank my colleagues at the Private Directors Association for introducing me to my guest, PDA enables and enhances the value growth and resilience of privately held companies through effective governance. Find out more about PDA at privatedirectors.org And as Matt just mentioned, we also met at a very exciting quantum event that happened last year. So it’s been a pleasure meeting you, Matt, I’ll give a brief introduction, and then we’ll get this conversation started. Today’s guest is Matt Vuckov. Matt is the founder and CEO of TalentCraft, a strategic staffing partner based in the Chicagoland area. They specialize in talent solutions for industries including healthcare, technology, government policy, life sciences and bio teck his strong focus on reshoring the semi in semi conductor and innovation TalentCraft connects organizations with top talent to drive digital transformation and workforce development. And we’re going to talk a little bit about that workforce development part in particular, because I think there’s a lot to talk about at this time. In addition to leading TalentCraft, Matt now serves as the chair of engineering it and scientific section Council, and leads the as a reshoring Task Force, advocating for workforce strategies to support critical manufacturing and technology sectors in the US. So he’s a busy guy. We will definitely talk about the future of work, as I know Matt is incredibly passionate about that, but I will start first with TalentCraft, because I am so excited to learn more. Matt. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for joining me on the show.

Matt Vuckov  3:01

You’re welcome. It’s pleasure to be here, and I appreciate the invitation.

Heather Bennett  3:07

So Matt, tell me about TalentCraft. How did this get started? What did where did it come

Matt Vuckov  3:13

from? Yeah, so again, thank Thank you, Heather. Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to hop on and share my story. Talk about TalentCraft, talk about the future of work and just again, you and Newport have been great partners and a great platform for us here to kind of get some of our ideas out there into the broader business ecosystem. So really appreciate that. You know, TalentCraft, I again, I mean, I grew up in the staffing and recruiting industry. I had an opportunity to work for some really great companies, some really good mentors along the way. I’ve had, you know, good leaders that I could, you know, look to to not only just, you know, model my career around, but really life, right, good role models from, you know, how to be a good dad, how to be a good husband, person in the community. So I’ve been really fortunate to have had that experience early in my career. I’ve also had really good parents. And, you know, I think one of the things that my parents taught me early on, they were both themselves in their own right, entrepreneurs. And my mom ran a travel agency, and my dad ran a drapery and blind insulation business. He was just a one man shop, but, you know, I got to see him, kind of, you know, have his business, grow his business, take control of it. And really, like he taught me a lot about customer service, because I would see him go out, you know, do his work all day long as a kid, and then come home and sit in his office and do his paperwork as he called it, and, you know, plan his day and return messages and. You know, voicemails that he would get on his answering machine. And you know, that was my time to kind of sit there with him and, you know, watch the Cubs games and just hang out with him in his office while he got prepared for the next day. And I think that that was honestly like, what led me to to to found TalentCraft. I think when I knew that I loved the work that I was doing, I loved the labor market, I loved connecting people with opportunity and kind of like figuring out that puzzle, I think I knew when I when I realized that that was what I wanted to do for the rest of you know, my career, hopefully it was, it was that experience that I had, kind of growing up around entrepreneurs, and just kind of being in a family where, you know, I think people kind of sought to, you know, make their own path. That the formation of, I did, the idea of TalentCraft, kind of came

Heather Bennett  6:02

from awesome. And I love hearing about, you know, the fact that a lot of entrepreneurs and business founders had someone in their life, normally, their family, who had that entrepreneurial and business owner event. Because I feel like being able to see that as you grow up gives you an example of what it looks like and why it’s possible, yes, which is awesome. Very cool. So, so very beginning, when you found a TalentCraft, what, what was, what were those first couple weeks of saying, Maybe I should start this business? What was,

Matt Vuckov  6:35

you know, yeah, I mean, so I, as I mentioned, I had a great job, and I was working at a great company, and we were doing some really great things that that company was kind of in the midst of a transition at the time, from a IT staff augmentation firm to something more than that, right? It was growing and it was evolving itself. This was around the time that, like the local model consultancy was really taking hold, and we were evolving our business from, you know, independent, individual place, individual contributor placements, to consulting led projects, right, building teams, driving strategy at our clients, and that was a really cool experience, like, I got to be a part of that, and I got to go from selling one service to selling a service that was similar, but like something more, something elevated. And, you know, I was having a conversation with one of my best friends. He had just started his own business, and he was the person that introduced me to my business partners, who are the critical, you know, piece in this whole thing, right? So I was connected with a family of entrepreneurs as well. And, you know, they are also very experienced and have a deep background within the staffing and recruiting industry. And I remember we met for breakfast, and it was like an instant click. Our values aligned. I think the vision of what we were both like wanting to build like we were both kind of talking about the same thing, and when we got together, it was like, Well, this is a fit, right? And it seems like, I think the values piece was a huge, huge thing. Of it without, without knowing kind of how a business partnership and you know, is going to work out. It was like we were both long term thinkers. And I think at the core, like, you know, you don’t, you know when you start a business like you don’t, you can’t predict the future. That’s the one thing that I’ve learned. Then the biggest thing I’ve learned through this. But you know, you can count on, I think the people who you’re going to be doing with it with, right? Like, that’s the, that’s the constant. And I just knew, like, from day one that, like, you know, these were the right folks to be partnering with. So, yeah, that was kind of how it started. And, you know, it’s, it’s grown, and there’s been several, you know, iterations of what the idea of TalentCraft was on day one to what it is now. And you know that journey has been a real blessing in my life to kind of have have gone through that with the folks that I’m building with. Awesome.

Heather Bennett  9:35

So what are some of those major we’ll say milestones or leaps, especially because a lot of what TalentCraft has done changed the industry, from what I understand, looking at the how everything evolved. So what were some of those big leaps that

Matt Vuckov  9:53

happened? Yeah, I think the first one is, again, it’s just kind of like proving our thesis and our model. And then being able to execute. So, like, the first milestone was probably, you know, get one client, make one placement, and prove that execution right. And I’ll never forget the first time that we did that, it was like, wow. Like, this is possible, right? So you go from there to to then starting to scale, we built our team. We started thinking about what the structure of our team was going to look like. And I think in the early days, like we we were following a playbook that I think many in the staffing and recruiting industry would think is, you know, it was very familiar to them, right? If this was, you know, sales and delivery, sales and recruiting. You know, we hired consultative, problem solving, entrepreneurial sales people that were good out there into the market, engage with our clients, address their most critical, you know, concerns from how they were building their team, and then we had a very experienced recruitment team that could do the same thing with candidates. So like, I think our real superpower was being able to marry complex, nuanced opportunities that our clients were kind of struggling to get their head around and make those things real for them by bringing it to the market and being able to bring great candidates and consultants into the equation. And then once we were able to kind of get those two parties together, you know, we were, we were, you know, great at kind of making the deal happen there, we have the infrastructure in place that could, you know, support that working arrangement. So from there, I mean, you know navigating through, you know 2020 and you know the the boom of 21 and 22 and then kind of this recalibration that I’d call it, like through 23 and 24 and now where we’re at in 25 like, it’s, it’s definitely been a journey, I think it’s been a growth journey, you know, all along the way, and at every stage. And you know, all growth is not linear necessarily, just like up into the right, you know, revenue growth, but the company today is, I think, more well prepared to meet the market’s most pressing challenges from a workforce perspective and from like a future work perspective, than we could have ever imagined four or five years ago, when we were really just, again, focused on executing and growing, but not with a lot of, like, long term thinking in mind.

Heather Bennett  12:52

So you talked about scaling. What were some of the challenges scaling? Weisz and I’m thinking in the realm of of people hiring for TalentCraft, but also technology, Weisz, or even capital raise, because scaling costs money. So, so which of like, tell me about like when we’re what were the challenges with those, those three areas? Well, I

Matt Vuckov  13:17

think on the capital front, I’ll talk about that first. I mean, I think the one thing that TalentCraft has benefited from, from day one, is like we have, you know, our partners, our co founders, are very experienced operators and owners of businesses within the staffing industry. So they’ve been on this journey for a long time. They know how it works. They have built and created successful businesses that have added a lot of value to the clients that they serve. And so we had a strong foundation there. And I think that there are also people that knew and looked at this opportunity as a long term strategy, like our vision was not, you know, sell the company in five years, right? The vision was build the company for the long haul and create something that that had a lot of value in the market. And so we’ve been blessed from from that perspective to, I don’t want to say, to not have to worry so much, but just to have the have the right level of support there in 2021 and 2022 when we were really growing right, the industry was growing a ton as well. So you know, if we were looking for talent that was in and had experience in the staffing and recruiting industry, um, it was really hard to hire people during that time because everyone was doing really well. Everyone was just focused on executing like there weren’t a lot of problems in the market, so to speak. Um. You know, it was hard to kind of identify why somebody might want to make a move or not, right? So we we had to look into, like, unorthodox sources of how to get people into the company. And we considered a lot of different avenues to do that. But that was a tough part, like during the time that we were really kind of growing and scaling, and like needing to hire because the business was growing so much, it was difficult to attract people, right? You know, just really good people, and to attract them away from the companies that they were currently working at just because everyone was, I think, doing so well and very much focused on execution, there was not a lot of time to, kind of, like look around and think about, oh, you know, here’s why I might want to make a move, and so on and so forth. So those are kind of like the two, the two areas there, you know, scaling the talent piece. We had to get creative. I think we did a great job of that. We were able to get a good mix of, you know, industry veterans into the company that kind of knew what we were doing and knew where just how to execute and how to operate. But then we also were able to kind of bring in a lot of people from non traditional backgrounds and entry points into our industry that have really enabled us to like, think a little different, and I think, pivot faster in certain moments.

Heather Bennett  16:29

So so with that specifically, I know earlier you talked about the importance of having aligned values with your co founder and partners. How do you think that that plays out in terms of hiring top talent? So for for TalentCraft, it sounded like you, you found a way to do that even in a very, very difficult market, to hire people away. How do you find that top talent, even in a difficult market? What do you look for? I think the

Matt Vuckov  17:01

first thing that it’s a great question, I think the people that are here and the people that have joined us and are here kind of making a positive contribution to the company, which, again, I feel like everyone here is really on board with the mission of the firm, is that, you know, first of all, it’s, we have a long view, right? I don’t think that anybody is here with the idea of, like, I was going to capture lightning in a bottle and and, you know, capitalize on a certain moment and then move on to something else. So I think these are all, like, very committed people that are very curious. They they take, at times, an unorthodox view of like looking at the market. They see things that maybe our others don’t necessarily see, challenges, opportunities, certain situations that I think our clients really kind of benefit from from that way of thinking, but they’re also all builders, like, we’re still in building mode, like the I talk about it all the time, like, the fun part about being at TalentCraft, and I think the fun part about being in the staffing and recruiting industry just in general, is, is that the market’s always changing. It’s evolving like, we don’t have a product, so to speak, right? We’re not, we’re not making a product to, like, address a certain challenge or opportunity. We’re developing a service that, you know, we point, we choose the point at what we believe are, you know, the most pressing industries, the most critical industries facing, you know, the country and the global economy. And it’s a fast paced game. It’s changing all the time, like the demands that these companies have for their hiring needs and the strategies to hire top talent is always evolving. So by the nature of of that, our business needs to keep constantly evolving. It can’t stay stagnant. We’re never gonna, we’re never gonna get to a point where we’re like, solved it, you know, like it’s it’s over, like it needs to get to get to a point where it’s like, it’s really good in that moment and in helping a client. You know, we got to be good at execution, of course, but then beyond that, we need to be ready to move on to also, like, what’s the next thing? Be thinking about that as well. And I think the group of people that we’ve assembled here, our core is is embodies that. You know, we are not a stagnant group of folks that gets comfortable easy. We’re comfortable being uncomfortable, and I think that that’s been one of the things that’s really benefited us along the way. What. Are some of your proudest moments there’s, well, I mean, I’m here in my office right now. I mean, you know the, I mean that the team, the proudest moment that I have is, I mean, you know, we’ve built a we’ve built a very resilient team that has helped us and our clients navigate through just a really interesting first seven years here. I think all markets are interesting, but we started the company, and we’re a year into it when you know, when, when covid came out. And, you know, I like to joke, I’m like, my plan all along was to just like, you know, you know, hire a bunch of ambitious, energetic, curious, entrepreneurial people, get them in a room and, you know, teach them the business, and grab a couple of our core clients and start doing some great work for them. It was like, When? When it was like, we weren’t going to be able to do that. I was like, Oh no. Well, there goes the plan. Like, now what? And it wasn’t my, you know, ideas that carried us forward. It was really, I think, the the resilience and the fortitude and the creative thinking of the team that’s that’s evolved us to where we are today. So, like, I’m really proud of that. I, you know, personally, I am really proud of, like, what we’ve created and how many lives it’s impacted. You know, I think that that’s in you know, and continues to impact. Like, every time you know, a Client Testimonial comes in, a candidate testimonial, or somebody you know, gets a gets a great job that, you know, helps their family or grows their career and TalentCraft could have played a small role in that. I that that makes me very proud. But I think the most, the thing that makes me most, that I’m most proud of and most excited for, is, you know, the future. I do think that we are thinking a lot about that, and I think that we have it’s, it’s the passion of our team about the work that we do, that that’s making that possible, and without that, I don’t think that we’re in a position to be having this conversation or just thinking about what are the next six months look like, let alone the next six years.

Heather Bennett  22:36

So before we get into I know you want to talk about workforce development and the future of workforce, which is incredibly important right now. What’s your vision for TalentCraft going forward? You talk long term, but what do you see happening for the company?

Matt Vuckov  22:53

Well, I think the company is going to continue to grow like it has. I see us. I see us going deeper and wider into serving certain specific industries. For example, I mean, what we would kind of consider to be critical industries, semiconductors, quantum computing, minerals, energy, healthcare, financial services, the life sciences, space. I mean, these are, I think, core industries that are at the at the epicenter of national competitiveness, here in the US, and they are all facing an immense amount of challenge and transition at this time. And I see us being leaning, even have more heavily into a the role of change agent, as the needs for those industries continue to evolve and grow, and, you know, at times, you know, present a lot of, like, new and novel opportunity. Like some of this stuff has really never been done before, and AI is impacting a lot of that. You know, the reshoring, as you mentioned earlier, of certain industries, or certain industries, you know, coming to certain markets and locations for the first time. Like, I think about an opportunity that that we are very close to, and here in the Midwest, which is a large semiconductor company coming to the state of Indiana and producing some, you know, critical components for for chips, for high memory bandwidth chips. And, you know, it’s like, last time I checked, like, they’ve never done that before. They’re, you know, like, not only has this company never, never done that here. But like, the people in this region haven’t done this before. Now, I’m a firm believer that, like, specifically talking about the Midwest, that, like, you know, you come here when you need to get hard things done. Like, that’s what we do, right? Like this, we make, we make steel here, and. Things like that, and like, that’s, you know, when that was, you know, never having been done before. Like, they came to the Midwest to do that and and rightfully so. So I think we’re going to get it right. But like, I just, you know, I think future of TalentCraft Weisz, we are going to continue to lean into, like, What’s the hardest thing out there, and how can we help enable the workforce, and ultimately, the companies that need this workforce to be able to succeed? How are we going to enable them and put them in the right position to grow and have resilient, scalable pipelines of talent developed that they can that make it easy for them to operate their business and grow, getting the talent into the company, so that that’s not an issue for them when they need to hit the gas and grow and and have confidence that that that workforce is there, like, that’s, that’s what we’re that’s what we’re continuing to kind of head into. I mean, I see us having, you know, more capabilities and more locations, like right now. You know, we’re headquartered in the Chicagoland area. We have team members that are on both coasts. We have, you know, folks in the southeast. We have people in Indiana, throughout the Midwest. I see us having even more of a presence out west and in other markets in the future, and just kind of being where the action is.

Heather Bennett  26:32

That’s awesome. And you know, you talked about those opportunities, where? Where do you think the opportunities are for workforce development from more of a, like, a national perspective?

Matt Vuckov  26:47

That’s a big question. I mean, obviously I, you know, maybe it’s just the lens at which I’m looking at it through, but like, I feel like Workforce Development has become like dinner table conversation, you know, just, just, you know, I like, it’s, it’s in the zeitgeist of, you know, the average American family at this point, like, it feels to me, like everyone’s talking about it. People are talking about like, you know, oh, is it a four year college? If so, which one? Or is it a trade school? Or is it straight into the trade, or is it a certificate, or is it a training program? Or, you know, do I even need any of that, right? And, you know, if you were like me, like when I went to college, you know, I didn’t know what I wanted to do, or even why the heck I was going it was just like something my my parents, you know, didn’t go to college, they, but they, they wanted that for me, but I’d be hard pressed to say if I knew why it was just something that they were like, No, you’re going to go do this, right? And it ended up being like, obviously, a, you know, a huge point in my life, and it set me on this path, right? But it wasn’t all laid out. And I think if you were, like, if that were me today, I don’t know if that would have been the same path, right? I mean, I’m glad that I did, and it’s, you know, going to Purdue is like, meant everything to me. But if faced with the same, you know question today, of like, what should I do? You know, I don’t know. It’s, I think there’s just more options out there, and it’s a little unclear and whatnot. So like, Yeah, I think workforce development is something that, I think understanding it broadly as a country, and having a strategy, which, you know, we do now right? The Department of Labor put out something the other day that is kind of orienting everyone around, like this golden age of innovation and workforce development here in the US, like I think that we’re going to start to see programs align themselves to supporting those initiatives at the highest level, which I think is going to be a good thing for national productivity, and ultimately, have the American workforce Working on the highest priority, biggest impact initiatives. You know, occurring in the country, which I think is going to be AI, innovation, right? And materials, energy, the components, everything that’s needed to go into that is kind of where, where the focus is going,

Heather Bennett  29:39

Yeah, I find it interesting. If you talk to people in the educational realm, there’s such a greater awareness of a diversity of learning styles, and I think that leads towards helping people like you said, find a job that they love doing, that they’re going to succeed. And it doesn’t always look like a four year degree with an additional graduate degree. Or, you know, it’s, it’s changed the options. There’s so many more options there. And I find it very exciting to see that it’s not just the universities, but also government agencies and private agencies. They’re all working together to try to figure this out, and and it’s starting to spread it. I know of about five or six years ago, the focus was on that post secondary, or even that even like the junior college, community college, like, look, what can we do there to really support the workforce? What I’m excited about now is they’re starting to recognize that you need to start much sooner, even in middle school, because if you don’t present to you know, students growing up. Look at the options. You know, your future doesn’t look just like this one path. I think that’s what we’re seeing. So with that in mind, what organizations do you think are have done a good job about working together in terms of, is it universities? Is it companies? Who’s Who’s working to make a difference with us. Right now, who should be we be watching?

Matt Vuckov  31:05

Well, I think there’s a lot of great work going on, you know. And again, I mean, I’ll call out, you know, our Industry Association, the American staffing Association, which, you know, I’m a member of TalentCrafts, a member of, and you know, they’ve been, they’ve been, you know, forward leaning. And I think thinking about, what is the role of, like our industry, within this workforce development equation, right? But I also think that there’s, you know, within the semiconductor space, there’s an organization called semi represents a ton of companies, and it’s, you know, one of the biggest industry associations in that space globally, and they’re doing an incredible job to build programs, build awareness, build incentive plans, etc, something else, I’ll call out that Again, I think is really been an important partner to us that I think, kind of like, you know, highlights those industry, you know, those industry, higher ed, you know, legislative, policy type partnerships. Is an organization called the Krach Institute for Tech Diplomacy at Purdue. It’s an organization I serve on the advisory board, or the Advisory Council, I should say, of the Krach Institute is founded by, you know, an entrepreneur, a great business leader. You know, Keith KRock, Purdue grad, did a lot of great things, kind of at the State Department, and then, you know, form the Krach Institute, along with Meng Chiang, the President of Purdue University, to really, kind of like, sit at the intersection of higher ed Teck entrepreneurship and like, diplomacy policy, like what’s going on at The National level, and start to, like, drive these conversations together in, like, a really creative and interesting way. And like, these people are master conveners and and they are able to be, you know, the the kind of the connective tissue that’s like, getting all these people together in a room and talking about, I think, the things that matter. And, you know, it’s not just workforce that they’re talking about. It’s like, it’s, it’s R&D, it’s funding, it’s, it’s, you know, stuff happening in government, stuff happening globally. And what should we be thinking about there? And I think what we see from them, and I think this is like, I don’t want to say like a new phenomenon, but like something that is definitely gaining more prevalence recently, is like, when you get together, just these disparate groups of people more regularly to talk about, you know, these critical issues, it’s like, there’s, there’s good energy and good outcomes that comes from that, you know, and, and whereas before, I felt like it was like, you know, oh, you know, the Workforce Development Group was like an agency that, like, did stuff, you know, either at the state level or at the federal level, but they didn’t really, like Talk to the business leaders, you know, or they didn’t talk to, you know, the people in higher ed or people that were developing legislation that was going to impact, you know, the needs of their of their folks, and now it’s like they’re all together, you know. And, and it’s really more about like, Hey, this is the mission. We need to we need to go fast and far here, and then it kind of comes down to execution for all of these different groups and like, yeah, workforce is putting together programs to, you know, drive certain initiatives forward, but they’re doing it all like in conjunction, and feeling like in lockstep. Up with, you know, what the what the industry’s needs are, what the what higher ed is doing, and so on, so forth.

Heather Bennett  35:08

And I think I do see a resurgence. And, you know, we had talked about resurgence of creativity, but also of innovation, you know, the opportunity for more centers like that to bring the various parts together, but also the incubators and the innovation centers that I’m seeing in manufacturing and other life sciences and whatnot, that I see a lot of good stuff coming out of there, and I’m hoping that that’ll continue. So it’s good to hear that the Workforce Development has a really smart group of people taking that on. Yeah.

Matt Vuckov  35:43

So I should just mention too here, you know, here in Chicago, right? I mean, which, you know, Portal innovations in the life sciences, space, which, you know, we’re a proud partner of, you know, P 30 3m, hub, intersect, Illinois, like these, these organizations, they’re all, they’re all doing the same thing, and we’re all, we’re all, I think we’re all benefiting from the kind of, like, proactive, forward thinking, you know, looking around the corner mindset they are able to bring to topics like this. Like, without them, we don’t have the luxury of, like, thinking what you know is going to be going on, you know, a year ahead, right? Because we’re just, we were just focused on the here and now. But like, with these organizations, and being partner with these organizations, I think it’s allowing us to, like, see into the future of it, and that’s helping us design today, what we need to support those future plans now,

Heather Bennett  36:45

absolutely, and I do think a key part of that is bringing in the people with experience who are able to understand that execution part so and to get the energy from the up and coming workforce to work together. Yeah, I think that’s really what’s going to to cause success going forward, which is great to hear. So who are your mentors, and what’s some of the best advice you’ve gotten during this process in your career? Wow.

Matt Vuckov  37:16

Well, I mean, again, I’ve I’ve I’ve benefited significantly from, from from great mentorship and and I’ve been, again, blessed to have people in my life who have like, at first, I didn’t really understand like, why they you know, it’s like, when you’ve never been mentored and someone comes and mentors you the first time. You’re like, Man, how do I repay this person, you know? Or, and they’re like, No, it’s fine. Like, you just keep, keep going, you know. And you’re like, what you know? Why are you spending your time with me? Right? And I think some of those mentors that I’ve had Ave really kind of taught me the, you know, the lesson there. And it’s obviously, as we’ve all talked about it’s like it’s giving back, it’s paying it forward, all of those things. But yeah, first one I’ll call out is a guy named Bernie circus gutter. I’ve known Bernie now for over 20 years. Bernie is almost nine years old now. He’s got more energy than you know. I think most of us have on a given day, and he’s one of those people that just kind of opened up a new world for me, and has never asked anything in return. And it’s just always kind of giving me great advice. I think one of the best pieces of advice he gave me early on was I went to go see him when I was starting TalentCraft. And he, you know, I was talking to him about, like, balance. At the time, I was like, a new dad. I, you know, I had two kids, you know, we started the company. I had two kids, you know, like two in one, you know, and then a third on the way. And it was like, Whoa, you know, like, this is getting busy. How are we going to do this? And he, I remember, he just, like, pulled out his paper and drew it, drew a, you know, an axis on it, and was like, faith, family, work, play, keep them all in balance. And at the time, I was like, Oh, God, easier said than done, you know, but like, as I’ve gotten older and as I’ve kind of gone through different, you know, iterations or seasons in my life and in the company, it’s like, wow, is that so true, you know, it’s like, so true, right? When you’re, when you feel like you’re, you know, there’s going to be different times that you have to, like, you know, give more to each and each one of those things. But at the end of the day, if you keep moving balance like, I think, I think what I’ve learned is you’re going to be all right, you know. But like, you know, through meeting Bernie, that’s led me to another individual I just want to call out, Mark Carlson. I. Mark Carlson is a mentor of mine that Bernie has introduced me to, and Mark is one of those, again, wildly successful on so many levels, one of the most positive people I’ve ever spoken to. Endless amounts of energy, ideas, creativity, like just a genuine, good hearted person who is just like. The thing I learned most about from Mark is like he, he’s just so interested in everything, you know, he, he, you know we, I was talking with him the other day, and, you know, our conversation was, like, a wide ranging conversation from, you know, all of these things that are, like, very near term, like, things in the business, you know, or things in life. And then, you know, out of nowhere, he’s just like, Oh, hey, by the way, I just saw a commercial for eight sleep, and we just bought that, you know, bought this mattress and, and you got to check it out. And, like, it’s changing. It’s like, it’s like, and so then we’re going down a rabbit hole, like talking about, you know, sleep schedules and mattresses and how that’s like, he’s, he’s like, so well versed on so many things. Like, his depth is, like, unbelievable. I feel like he can be an expert in most rooms he walks into, but like he’s also just like one of the most humble, congenial guys you know that I know, and you know, every time I pick up the phone and give him a call, he seems like he’s got an hour for me, and it’s like, and I know, I know he’s got a million things going on. So, yeah, mentors have been important to me in my life. And then, you know, informally, I, you know, in a different way, I’d say, you know my dad,

Matt Vuckov  41:52

you know he’s just, he’s taught me a lot. So carrying that,

Heather Bennett  41:57

that’s awesome. So you talked about sleep and about keeping things in balance. So what are some of your daily rituals that help you keep that balance?

Matt Vuckov  42:11

Yeah, well, I’m like a recovering, like, athlete, right? And, and, you know, marathon runner and whatnot. And like, my, you know, for me, it used to be running like I would, I would, I would like to do that every day. My wife will tell you that, like, I’m a, I’m a renaissance man, and I acquire hobbies fast. And seemingly they all come with, like, lots of gear and stuff to put in the garage, like, you know, whether it’s golfing or road cycling or, you know, all of these things. But like, I have a lot of interest, I think, my daily rituals. I’ve been fortunate to work with a great coach, and she’s taught me about journaling, being very intentional, about, you know, having, like, a start of the day routine and an end of the day routine, and it’s that stuff really helps. You know, it’s like waking up, having a way that you start your day, clearing your mind, clearing your thoughts. Like, I think earlier on in my career too, I thought, like, you know, you just needed to, like, feet hit the ground and then, like, away you go, you know. And like, for me now more than ever, like, I’m very intentional about, like, having waking up earlier, going to bed earlier, having, like, the first hour of the day be just kind of like for me to, like, think about stuff and do things, not even like, necessarily about, like, what I have to do that day, but just stuff that I’m thinking about. Like, you get it all out, and then, you know, I go through my day, and then, you know, for me, I mean, it’s pretty simple. Like, I don’t know if we call it a ritual, but like, I love being home with my family, like, I’ve got three kids that keep us very busy. And, you know, we’re running around right now to all the different sporting events and stuff. Like, we’re in that season of life, and then, you know, ending the day. You know, at home, my wife reading books, watching great shows, talking, catching up like those are the things that kind of like. Bookend my days.

Heather Bennett  44:29

I love that. And it’s a very common theme to have the routines beginning the day, ending the day, and and we’re also, I’m hearing while interviewing business owners having that built in time to think strategically, and may not even be on your business, but on life in general, and being able to really set aside that time has like that’s a theme that I’m seeing come up again and again in these these conversations. Conversations. I do have one last question, but before I ask it, I wanted to point people to your website, TalentCraft.com, and, of course, to reach out to you on LinkedIn. Is it sounds like that’s a great way to connect with Matt. So Matt, what’s a hard lesson you learned that you wish you could impart to future business owners.

Matt Vuckov  45:30

Learned a lot of hard lessons. Think one that stands out though is Josh you have to have again. It comes back to balance. It’s like you have to you have to have a vision for your business and where it’s going. You also have to be able to communicate that and enlist people in the fight with you, while, while also like not taking it too seriously, you know, it can’t be, I think, for me, at times in my career, and at times even with TalentCraft like I have been So, you know, I felt like progress. You know, was a direct correlation to, like, how hard I was pushing on the business, or how hard I was working in it, or, you know, how hard I was trying to, kind of, you know, drive it toward a certain outcome. And that, like that, I could directly impact that when, in the reality, I’ve seen it more often than not, like the, you know, when you set a team toward a vision and gas them up and fire them up about it and get out of the way, that’s when the better things happen at that point, right? Rather than trying to kind of lead toward it on your own. So I think when I was young, you know, and still am, but like in the early innings of TalentCraft, I wish I would have understood, understood that better than I did at the time, and that I that I think I’ve learned along the way,

Heather Bennett  47:16

that’s great advice. That was great advice. I’ve been talking with Matt, founder and CEO of TalentCraft, Matt, thank you so much for sharing your story, your thoughts. We have so many links I’m going to make sure are embedded in in this episode, because you really pointed out to a lot of organizations that are making some awesome changes for the workforce going forward. Thank you so much. This is great.

Matt Vuckov  47:42

Thank you, Heather. I appreciate it. It’s been, it’s been, it’s been great to talk with you.

Outro 47:51

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